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Debates
Started by Guide To Salvation at 05-06-2006 7:34 PM. Topic has 169 replies.
  
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 05-06-2006, 7:34 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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 marklewis wrote: | |
I can dig it up to the point where the Qur'an makes an exception for the Prophet. But you know it is his book and that is cool. But now it raises a new question. Does the Qur'an put a limit on the type of person you can marry?
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A muslims may marry any woman that believes in God, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. A muslims may not marry a disbeliever. Chapter four of the Qur'an describes this.
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05-06-2006, 7:46 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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Also, You have stated many times that you think the bible is currupted. But we are talking about two different bibles. From what I have seen so far the only currupted parts of the bible are those that Muhammad couldn't use, or forgot to include in the Qur'an. Or those that don't allow for another prophet like Muhammad. But I will still say the bible is not currupted. When I read it, the Holy Spirit is with me. Holy Spirit by definition of the Spirit Jesus said would be in me when he left. Sometimes I read the same thing two or three times and then bam, it really speaks to me. It is like the Lord is reading it to me. Then there are times when I read it and my mind is all over the place and I miss a lot of what it says.
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05-06-2006, 8:03 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Also, You have stated many times that you think the bible is currupted. But we are talking about two different bibles. From what I have seen so far the only currupted parts of the bible are those that Muhammad couldn't use, or forgot to include in the Qur'an. Or those that don't allow for another prophet like Muhammad. But I will still say the bible is not currupted. When I read it, the Holy Spirit is with me. Holy Spirit by definition of the Spirit Jesus said would be in me when he left. Sometimes I read the same thing two or three times and then bam, it really speaks to me. It is like the Lord is reading it to me. Then there are times when I read it and my mind is all over the place and I miss a lot of what it says. |
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Your own Bible admits corruption in Jeremiah 8:8, which you still haven't addressed. Also, how do you explain all the contradictions, and the errors. Look at my Bible section, the math errors alone are disturbing. We've already been over what Jesus (pbuh) was speaking of. Arguments such as "it speaks to me" or "is with me" and such aren't relevant in dialogue, because if I didn't feel something I wouldn't be a Muslims either. Obviously everyone feels, or thinks they feel something, whether Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Baptist, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, 7th day adventist, Moonie, Catholic, Methodist, Protestant, whatever a person is, they feel something or they wouldn't be what they are. You argue the holy spirit is with you, I argue that I can feel God everytime I pray and everytime I read the Qur'an, or everytime I look at my surroundings. That argument is useless because it negates itself in such dialogue.
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05-06-2006, 9:14 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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I don't see the bible corrupted in Jer. 8:8. I see that the Lord was displeased with the Jewish people, specifically the scribes. That is plain in the whole chapter. Specifically in 8:8 the Lord is saying that the people think they are safe because they have the Law. The scribes are telling them they are safe when actually they are not. So just by having the Law doesn't mean you are safe, especially if you do not follow it.
Jesus is a personal God. Remember, unlike any of the other prophets, or any other religion, Jesus is alive. He rose from the dead and when he left, he sealed us with the Holy Spirit. So, God actually lives inside of me and is talking to me. He loves us so much that he talks to each of us. Not just the Law on a piece of paper, or in a book, but in me. In my heart. I mean, if you were born on a deserted island without the Qur'an, would you make it to heaven? If you believed the bible the way I do, you could be sent to the moon and God would find a way to your heart. This God is so real that we don't need anyone to tell us how to find him or what to do to be good. I mean, when I sin, I know it. I don't need the bible to tell me that. God talks directly to me.
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05-06-2006, 10:21 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
I don't know Arabic, but I will take your word for it. This seems as those the Prophet Muhammad is trying to stick himself into this prophesy. In the gospels, this scripture is referenced for Jesus. Math. 12:18. Jesus' mission was for all mankind. Jesus did tell one lady that food for the children is not ment for the dogs. The Lady replied, even the dogs eat what falls from the table. Jesus granted her request. Also the Roman soldier that had a sick son. Jesus healed his son. Why would Jesus only come for the Jews and also be a light unto the Gentiles. The woman at the well was not a jew. Jesus indeed showed his love for her. He even told her she didn't know what she worshiped. Jews couldn't even touch her type of people. He forgave her sins, something only God can do. Either he is a blasphemer or God. Jesus came for the whole world. It is obvious by his actions that he was not only here to serve the Jews. The Jews are Gods chosen people to reveal himself to the whole world. For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. Remeber Jesus is perfect. Unlike any other prophet in the world. How could he be so perfect? That is why I love him.
To be continued...
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05-07-2006, 7:47 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
I don't see the bible corrupted in Jer. 8:8. I see that the Lord was displeased with the Jewish people, specifically the scribes. That is plain in the whole chapter. Specifically in 8:8 the Lord is saying that the people think they are safe because they have the Law. The scribes are telling them they are safe when actually they are not. So just by having the Law doesn't mean you are safe, especially if you do not follow it.
Jesus is a personal God. Remember, unlike any of the other prophets, or any other religion, Jesus is alive. He rose from the dead and when he left, he sealed us with the Holy Spirit. So, God actually lives inside of me and is talking to me. He loves us so much that he talks to each of us. Not just the Law on a piece of paper, or in a book, but in me. In my heart. I mean, if you were born on a deserted island without the Qur'an, would you make it to heaven? If you believed the bible the way I do, you could be sent to the moon and God would find a way to your heart. This God is so real that we don't need anyone to tell us how to find him or what to do to be good. I mean, when I sin, I know it. I don't need the bible to tell me that. God talks directly to me.
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You have a strange way of interpreting the Bible. The verse states "How can you say we are wise, the the law of the Lord is with us, when in fact the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie." Why blind yourself? It's saying nothing about the scribes trying to make someone feel safe.
Funny, that's how satan works. Remember, satan doesn't have a book, he works by getting inside your head and heart. You can feel God, but you have to be sure that that is in fact what you're feeling. It's like if you never ate an apple. People can describe to you as best as possible what it tastes like, until you eat one, you won't actually know. Same with what you feel. Until you meet God, you have no way of knowing for sure. That's why God sent down scripture. When you sin you know, just like everyone in the world know it, because we aren't animals, we have wisdom to let us know when we make mistakes, it has nothing to do with God telling you that you sinned. If you need God to tell you when you sinned, then you are indeed in bad shape.
It is clear. It's saying that you don't have the law of God because the scribes inserted their lies when they transcribed the bible. Clear as day.
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05-07-2006, 7:53 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
I don't know Arabic, but I will take your word for it. This seems as those the Prophet Muhammad is trying to stick himself into this prophesy. In the gospels, this scripture is referenced for Jesus. Math. 12:18. Jesus' mission was for all mankind. Jesus did tell one lady that food for the children is not ment for the dogs. The Lady replied, even the dogs eat what falls from the table. Jesus granted her request. Also the Roman soldier that had a sick son. Jesus healed his son. Why would Jesus only come for the Jews and also be a light unto the Gentiles. The woman at the well was not a jew. Jesus indeed showed his love for her. He even told her she didn't know what she worshiped. Jews couldn't even touch her type of people. He forgave her sins, something only God can do. Either he is a blasphemer or God. Jesus came for the whole world. It is obvious by his actions that he was not only here to serve the Jews. The Jews are Gods chosen people to reveal himself to the whole world. For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. Remeber Jesus is perfect. Unlike any other prophet in the world. How could he be so perfect? That is why I love him.
To be continued...
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Ok, but you know what? God to the website Jews for Judaism, and they will make all the arguments you made about the prophecies about Jesus (pbuh). According to Christianity Jesus (pbuh) is perfect, according to Islam, God only chooses the perfect to serve as his prophets. Every prophet was perfect. Argue all you want that the prophecies are about Jesus (pbuh), even though they clearly don't fit unless you try desperately, and blind your self to verses that don't fit, but remember, the Jews also deny that the Prophecies attributed to Jesus(pbuh) are really about Jesus (pbuh). It seems evident that you have your fixed beliefs, and you twist the Bible to fit those preconceived beliefs. Look what you did to Jeremiah 8:8, for the life of me I can't understand how you derived that meaning from that verse. You know, once we are all ressurected, God takes the blinders off of everyone, and we see everything clearly. If you're heart is sealed now, you better open it, before it's too late. I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm trying to make you see your thought process.
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05-07-2006, 7:22 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
I don't know Arabic, but I will take your word for it. This seems as those the Prophet Muhammad is trying to stick himself into this prophesy. In the gospels, this scripture is referenced for Jesus. Math. 12:18. Jesus' mission was for all mankind. Jesus did tell one lady that food for the children is not ment for the dogs. The Lady replied, even the dogs eat what falls from the table. Jesus granted her request. Also the Roman soldier that had a sick son. Jesus healed his son. Why would Jesus only come for the Jews and also be a light unto the Gentiles. The woman at the well was not a jew. Jesus indeed showed his love for her. He even told her she didn't know what she worshiped. Jews couldn't even touch her type of people. He forgave her sins, something only God can do. Either he is a blasphemer or God. Jesus came for the whole world. It is obvious by his actions that he was not only here to serve the Jews. The Jews are Gods chosen people to reveal himself to the whole world. For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. Remeber Jesus is perfect. Unlike any other prophet in the world. How could he be so perfect? That is why I love him.
To be continued...
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Ok, but you know what? God to the website Jews for Judaism, and they will make all the arguments you made about the prophecies about Jesus (pbuh). According to Christianity Jesus (pbuh) is perfect, according to Islam, God only chooses the perfect to serve as his prophets. Every prophet was perfect. Argue all you want that the prophecies are about Jesus (pbuh), even though they clearly don't fit unless you try desperately, and blind your self to verses that don't fit, but remember, the Jews also deny that the Prophecies attributed to Jesus(pbuh) are really about Jesus (pbuh). It seems evident that you have your fixed beliefs, and you twist the Bible to fit those preconceived beliefs. Look what you did to Jeremiah 8:8, for the life of me I can't understand how you derived that meaning from that verse. You know, once we are all ressurected, God takes the blinders off of everyone, and we see everything clearly. If you're heart is sealed now, you better open it, before it's too late. I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm trying to make you see your thought process. |
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I didn't make any prophecies about Jesus?
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05-07-2006, 8:37 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
It is interpretable two ways. My way and yours. Your way says the Scribes copied it falsely. My way says the Scribes taught it falsely. The whole chapter gives examples of what the scribes were guilty of teaching. Scribes were It does not say they were guilty of copying the law wrong. Your interpretation says they were guilty of copying the Law wrong. The way you write the verse would lead me to believe that they in fact did copy it wrong. The only problem with that is, I have just checked, many other translation have it written out in two sentences. How can we say we are wise, because we have the law of the Lord? In vain he made it, the pen of the scribes is in vain. One translation actually says that the scribes handled it wrong. The whole verse in context doesn't say they copied it wrong. Jesus read out of the law when he was on earth and didn't seem to lead us to believe it was copied wrong. Jesus also told his followers to do what the Scribes told them to do, but not to do what they did. It was the same accusation. The Scribes were leading people down the wrong road with their actions but what they read out of the Law was correct. There are more examples in the bible of the Law being used. I know you know what they are so I won't even list them.
This looks like another example of Islam taking away from the bible so that it can fill in the blanks. In fact, there are no blanks. The God of the bible is perfect. The bible is his word. The bible is perfect.
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Jesus (pbuh) may have read the law, but you have to remember, each prophet (according to the Qur'an) came with hteir own book that confirmed the previous scriptures. He had a guide as to what was truly from God and free from mans tampering. Also, I wrote down word for word the translation of Jeremiah 8:8 from my Bible, but either way you look at it, it mentions the pen, and the pen is used for writing. Also, from dictionary.com
scribe:
- A professional copyist of manuscripts and documents.
A scribe doesn't teach, he copies manuscripts, this alone debunks your whole argument. Scribes aren't teachers. So the bible does indeed teach that it has been corrupted. The verse clearly speaks of the scribes (which are copyist of manuscripts) and specifically mentions the pen. This has nothing to do with teaching.
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05-07-2006, 8:39 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.
I don't know Arabic, but I will take your word for it. This seems as those the Prophet Muhammad is trying to stick himself into this prophesy. In the gospels, this scripture is referenced for Jesus. Math. 12:18. Jesus' mission was for all mankind. Jesus did tell one lady that food for the children is not ment for the dogs. The Lady replied, even the dogs eat what falls from the table. Jesus granted her request. Also the Roman soldier that had a sick son. Jesus healed his son. Why would Jesus only come for the Jews and also be a light unto the Gentiles. The woman at the well was not a jew. Jesus indeed showed his love for her. He even told her she didn't know what she worshiped. Jews couldn't even touch her type of people. He forgave her sins, something only God can do. Either he is a blasphemer or God. Jesus came for the whole world. It is obvious by his actions that he was not only here to serve the Jews. The Jews are Gods chosen people to reveal himself to the whole world. For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. Remeber Jesus is perfect. Unlike any other prophet in the world. How could he be so perfect? That is why I love him.
To be continued...
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Ok, but you know what? God to the website Jews for Judaism, and they will make all the arguments you made about the prophecies about Jesus (pbuh). According to Christianity Jesus (pbuh) is perfect, according to Islam, God only chooses the perfect to serve as his prophets. Every prophet was perfect. Argue all you want that the prophecies are about Jesus (pbuh), even though they clearly don't fit unless you try desperately, and blind your self to verses that don't fit, but remember, the Jews also deny that the Prophecies attributed to Jesus(pbuh) are really about Jesus (pbuh). It seems evident that you have your fixed beliefs, and you twist the Bible to fit those preconceived beliefs. Look what you did to Jeremiah 8:8, for the life of me I can't understand how you derived that meaning from that verse. You know, once we are all ressurected, God takes the blinders off of everyone, and we see everything clearly. If you're heart is sealed now, you better open it, before it's too late. I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm trying to make you see your thought process.
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I didn't make any prophecies about Jesus? |
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No, that's not what I'm saying. There are most definately prophecies of Jesus (pbuh) in the Old Testament, but there are also prophecies of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible. What I'm saying is that just like the Jews denied the prophecies of Jesus (pbuh) you deny the prophecies of Muhammad (pbuh).
Also, I believe that not all prophecies attributed to Jesus (pbuh) are really about him, but there are very many that are.
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05-07-2006, 8:44 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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If the Bible is so perfect, can you explain to me this one error out of the many. There are hundreds of them, just for the record, but here is only one. What is the explanation for this?
The passage Ezra 1:7-11 concerns the articles from the Temple which were returned to the Jews. It was mentioned, in Ezra 7:8, that the chief royal treasury made an inventory and that these are the items returned:
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Description |
Number of items |
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Ezra 1:9-10 |
gold basins
silver basins
silver pans
small gold bowls
small silver bowls
other vessels |
30
1,000
29
30
410
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2,499 |
The total of articles returned were 2,499. Yet at the very next verse the total is given as:
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Ezra 1:11
all the vessels of gold and of silver were five thousand four hundred and sixty nine. |
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Note that Ezra 1:10 does not allow other unlisted items to be assumed since the last portion already mentioned “other vessels” or other articles. Obviously a discrepancy of 2,970 exist between the given total of 5,469 and the actual total of 2,499.
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05-08-2006, 12:23 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
It is interpretable two ways. My way and yours. Your way says the Scribes copied it falsely. My way says the Scribes taught it falsely. The whole chapter gives examples of what the scribes were guilty of teaching. Scribes were It does not say they were guilty of copying the law wrong. Your interpretation says they were guilty of copying the Law wrong. The way you write the verse would lead me to believe that they in fact did copy it wrong. The only problem with that is, I have just checked, many other translation have it written out in two sentences. How can we say we are wise, because we have the law of the Lord? In vain he made it, the pen of the scribes is in vain. One translation actually says that the scribes handled it wrong. The whole verse in context doesn't say they copied it wrong. Jesus read out of the law when he was on earth and didn't seem to lead us to believe it was copied wrong. Jesus also told his followers to do what the Scribes told them to do, but not to do what they did. It was the same accusation. The Scribes were leading people down the wrong road with their actions but what they read out of the Law was correct. There are more examples in the bible of the Law being used. I know you know what they are so I won't even list them.
This looks like another example of Islam taking away from the bible so that it can fill in the blanks. In fact, there are no blanks. The God of the bible is perfect. The bible is his word. The bible is perfect.
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Jesus (pbuh) may have read the law, but you have to remember, each prophet (according to the Qur'an) came with hteir own book that confirmed the previous scriptures. He had a guide as to what was truly from God and free from mans tampering. Also, I wrote down word for word the translation of Jeremiah 8:8 from my Bible, but either way you look at it, it mentions the pen, and the pen is used for writing. Also, from dictionary.com
scribe:
- A professional copyist of manuscripts and documents.
A scribe doesn't teach, he copies manuscripts, this alone debunks your whole argument. Scribes aren't teachers. So the bible does indeed teach that it has been corrupted. The verse clearly speaks of the scribes (which are copyist of manuscripts) and specifically mentions the pen. This has nothing to do with teaching. |
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To think a scribe doesn't teach would be crazy. Besides in Jeremiah the prophecy says they did. Also, scribes to the place of priests because the priests became political.
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05-08-2006, 12:40 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
It is interpretable two ways. My way and yours. Your way says the Scribes copied it falsely. My way says the Scribes taught it falsely. The whole chapter gives examples of what the scribes were guilty of teaching. Scribes were It does not say they were guilty of copying the law wrong. Your interpretation says they were guilty of copying the Law wrong. The way you write the verse would lead me to believe that they in fact did copy it wrong. The only problem with that is, I have just checked, many other translation have it written out in two sentences. How can we say we are wise, because we have the law of the Lord? In vain he made it, the pen of the scribes is in vain. One translation actually says that the scribes handled it wrong. The whole verse in context doesn't say they copied it wrong. Jesus read out of the law when he was on earth and didn't seem to lead us to believe it was copied wrong. Jesus also told his followers to do what the Scribes told them to do, but not to do what they did. It was the same accusation. The Scribes were leading people down the wrong road with their actions but what they read out of the Law was correct. There are more examples in the bible of the Law being used. I know you know what they are so I won't even list them.
This looks like another example of Islam taking away from the bible so that it can fill in the blanks. In fact, there are no blanks. The God of the bible is perfect. The bible is his word. The bible is perfect.
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Jesus (pbuh) may have read the law, but you have to remember, each prophet (according to the Qur'an) came with hteir own book that confirmed the previous scriptures. He had a guide as to what was truly from God and free from mans tampering. Also, I wrote down word for word the translation of Jeremiah 8:8 from my Bible, but either way you look at it, it mentions the pen, and the pen is used for writing. Also, from dictionary.com
scribe:
- A professional copyist of manuscripts and documents.
A scribe doesn't teach, he copies manuscripts, this alone debunks your whole argument. Scribes aren't teachers. So the bible does indeed teach that it has been corrupted. The verse clearly speaks of the scribes (which are copyist of manuscripts) and specifically mentions the pen. This has nothing to do with teaching.
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To think a scribe doesn't teach would be crazy. Besides in Jeremiah the prophecy says they did. Also, scribes to the place of priests because the priests became political. |
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Also, you are taking one word out of the whole chapter and leaning your whole argument on that word. Not to mention, the argument in the chapter has nothing to do with the Law being copied wrong. It has to do with the scribes teaching the people false doctrin. If the scribes were indeed copying the Law wrong, the focus of the prophecy probubly would have been that. I don't believe your argument. I know what a pen does and what a scribe is.
Also, Jesus never mentioned carrying his own book. It was said that he went into the synagouges and read from the Law. He could have solved a lot of problems right there. Why would he wait for Muhammad. And if he wanted to wait for Muhammad to bring the real truth to the Jews and Gentiles, then he really wouldn't be a very good prophet. All that he taught and did was from Gods word. If the word was corrupted, then Jesus was teaching a corrupted doctrin. Now if Muhammad believes in Jesus, then he would also be corrupted. Now we have to go back to the begining. Where will stop. Why believe Muhammad when he believes Jesus who believes in the Law that is corrupted. But wait it gets better, Muhammad actually got the real truth. That being the case, Jesus was decieved hence a deciever hence must have had the spirit of satan. So we are still back to square one. Either that or Jesus wasn't clued in on the fact that he was teaching a corrupted doctrin. In which case, it Muhammad had the truth, why would he still believe in Jesus. Remember the Jesus told his followers that he would send the spirit (Muhammad) that would lead you into all truth. The crazy thing is he was talking with his disciples, they were Jews. If Muhammad was sent to the Gentiles, why would Jesus tell his disciples he would send them Muhammad (spirit). If this is the case, Muhammad came a little late for the discilples. This is really not making any scence. I am going to go on to the next prophecy.
The scribes took the place of the priests.
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05-08-2006, 1:15 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
It is interpretable two ways. My way and yours. Your way says the Scribes copied it falsely. My way says the Scribes taught it falsely. The whole chapter gives examples of what the scribes were guilty of teaching. Scribes were It does not say they were guilty of copying the law wrong. Your interpretation says they were guilty of copying the Law wrong. The way you write the verse would lead me to believe that they in fact did copy it wrong. The only problem with that is, I have just checked, many other translation have it written out in two sentences. How can we say we are wise, because we have the law of the Lord? In vain he made it, the pen of the scribes is in vain. One translation actually says that the scribes handled it wrong. The whole verse in context doesn't say they copied it wrong. Jesus read out of the law when he was on earth and didn't seem to lead us to believe it was copied wrong. Jesus also told his followers to do what the Scribes told them to do, but not to do what they did. It was the same accusation. The Scribes were leading people down the wrong road with their actions but what they read out of the Law was correct. There are more examples in the bible of the Law being used. I know you know what they are so I won't even list them.
This looks like another example of Islam taking away from the bible so that it can fill in the blanks. In fact, there are no blanks. The God of the bible is perfect. The bible is his word. The bible is perfect.
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Jesus (pbuh) may have read the law, but you have to remember, each prophet (according to the Qur'an) came with hteir own book that confirmed the previous scriptures. He had a guide as to what was truly from God and free from mans tampering. Also, I wrote down word for word the translation of Jeremiah 8:8 from my Bible, but either way you look at it, it mentions the pen, and the pen is used for writing. Also, from dictionary.com
scribe:
- A professional copyist of manuscripts and documents.
A scribe doesn't teach, he copies manuscripts, this alone debunks your whole argument. Scribes aren't teachers. So the bible does indeed teach that it has been corrupted. The verse clearly speaks of the scribes (which are copyist of manuscripts) and specifically mentions the pen. This has nothing to do with teaching.
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To think a scribe doesn't teach would be crazy. Besides in Jeremiah the prophecy says they did. Also, scribes to the place of priests because the priests became political. |
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Also, you are taking one word out of the whole chapter and leaning your whole argument on that word. Not to mention, the argument in the chapter has nothing to do with the Law being copied wrong. It has to do with the scribes teaching the people false doctrin. If the scribes were indeed copying the Law wrong, the focus of the prophecy probubly would have been that. I don't believe your argument. I know what a pen does and what a scribe is.
Also, Jesus never mentioned carrying his own book. It was said that he went into the synagouges and read from the Law. He could have solved a lot of problems right there. Why would he wait for Muhammad. And if he wanted to wait for Muhammad to bring the real truth to the Jews and Gentiles, then he really wouldn't be a very good prophet. All that he taught and did was from Gods word. If the word was corrupted, then Jesus was teaching a corrupted doctrin. Now if Muhammad believes in Jesus, then he would also be corrupted. Now we have to go back to the begining. Where will stop. Why believe Muhammad when he believes Jesus who believes in the Law that is corrupted. But wait it gets better, Muhammad actually got the real truth. That being the case, Jesus was decieved hence a deciever hence must have had the spirit of satan. So we are still back to square one. Either that or Jesus wasn't clued in on the fact that he was teaching a corrupted doctrin. In which case, it Muhammad had the truth, why would he still believe in Jesus. Remember the Jesus told his followers that he would send the spirit (Muhammad) that would lead you into all truth. The crazy thing is he was talking with his disciples, they were Jews. If Muhammad was sent to the Gentiles, why would Jesus tell his disciples he would send them Muhammad (spirit). If this is the case, Muhammad came a little late for the discilples. This is really not making any scence. I am going to go on to the next prophecy.
The scribes took the place of the priests.
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I never meant a physical book he carried with him, just like Muhammad (pbuh) never actually walked around carrying a Qur'an, yet he read the law of the Qur'an. The book of Jesus (pbuh) would be the Gospels, which were not corrupted until after his dying (there is proof, look at the footnotes of every Bible aside from KJV, which refuses to correct any unfaithfulness in their translation.). So Jesus read from the law, big deal. He would know which are still valid, wouldn't you think? I mean God sent him with the same message. Muhammad (pbuh) believes in Jesus (pbuh), so what? Jesus (pbuh) was a true prophet of God. Of course he believes in Jesus (pbuh) That doesn't mean he believes in the corrupters that believed Jesus (pbuh) words. So, Jesus (pbuh) read the law, which was not corrupted, cause he would know what was corrupted since he came to confirm the previous law. Muhammad (pbuh) believed in Jesus (pbuh), because Jesus (pbuh) never taught anything not from God. Jesus (pbuh) told the deciples he had to leave for the spirit to come, but he didn't mean in their lifetime. It's hard to argue your logic. It seems that you are so eager to try and find fault with Islam, that you leave logic in the wayside.
How can a scribe take the place of a priest? Their job is to copy scripture, they're not teachers. It's like a court stenographer taking the place of a Judge, it could never happen, that's not their specialty. I've got 6 different Bible translations, and I can't find a thing in any of them that says the scribes took the place of the priests. The Bible isn't a riddle book. And you sure can't add to it, which God strongly warns. So what scripture do you have that backs that the scribes replaced the priests? I've never seen anything even remotely close.
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