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Debates
Started by marklewis at 05-08-2006 5:43 PM. Topic has 169 replies.
  
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 05-08-2006, 5:43 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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Jesus knows what is valid, I am just saying that he would have corrected the mistakes. Anyway, it was a history lesson. Not scripture. The Jews do things a certain way. I am just saying the scribes had to pull double duty when the priests got to political.
You are right, it is not logical what I said, that is why is said it. So, what part of the 10 commandments is corrupted? What more else is there than these.
Do you know that Jesus revealed what the Law was? Yes he did. So if we agree that Jesus would know the Law then know this. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
You can't really corrupt this law. So here we have the law in its uncorrupted form. From Jesus. Why would Muhammad have to add to this. This is not exclusive to just Jews. It is for us all. So Jesus covers the Gentiles and the Jews.
Take note of your website. It is a direct attack against Christianity. You don't mention any other religion. You are not mad at any other religion? They teach false doctrin. Why don't you spend time disproving every religion including Christianity.
Jesus is not exclusive to the Jews. He came so that all who are blind can see. Not just all Jews. All the world. This is a free gift. I pray because He hears me. This is not ment to be insulting, but I don't pray towards an earthly place. Remember Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. Mecca is of this world. I don't pray toward Golgotha, the garden of Gathsemene, I don't pray toward Jerusalem. And I don't pray toward a broken down building that someone said used to be the temple. All of these things are earthly. I pray to heaven. To Jesus. The best thing about praying to Jesus is that he answers. He brings peace in the midst of the storm. He brings joy in the pain. He brings hope. No other religion in the world can do what Jesus has done for the world. They can only do something for you when you are alive, Jesus is building us a place right now for when we are dead. If Jesus is the contractor, why would you want Muhammad when he told you to pray toward a place that will eventually erode and fall over?
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05-08-2006, 7:58 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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 marklewis wrote: | |
Jesus knows what is valid, I am just saying that he would have corrected the mistakes. Anyway, it was a history lesson. Not scripture. The Jews do things a certain way. I am just saying the scribes had to pull double duty when the priests got to political.
You are right, it is not logical what I said, that is why is said it. So, what part of the 10 commandments is corrupted? What more else is there than these.
Do you know that Jesus revealed what the Law was? Yes he did. So if we agree that Jesus would know the Law then know this. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
You can't really corrupt this law. So here we have the law in its uncorrupted form. From Jesus. Why would Muhammad have to add to this. This is not exclusive to just Jews. It is for us all. So Jesus covers the Gentiles and the Jews.
Take note of your website. It is a direct attack against Christianity. You don't mention any other religion. You are not mad at any other religion? They teach false doctrin. Why don't you spend time disproving every religion including Christianity.
Jesus is not exclusive to the Jews. He came so that all who are blind can see. Not just all Jews. All the world. This is a free gift. I pray because He hears me. This is not ment to be insulting, but I don't pray towards an earthly place. Remember Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. Mecca is of this world. I don't pray toward Golgotha, the garden of Gathsemene, I don't pray toward Jerusalem. And I don't pray toward a broken down building that someone said used to be the temple. All of these things are earthly. I pray to heaven. To Jesus. The best thing about praying to Jesus is that he answers. He brings peace in the midst of the storm. He brings joy in the pain. He brings hope. No other religion in the world can do what Jesus has done for the world. They can only do something for you when you are alive, Jesus is building us a place right now for when we are dead. If Jesus is the contractor, why would you want Muhammad when he told you to pray toward a place that will eventually erode and fall over?
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10 commandments are fine, the Qur'an confirms those. What's not fine is the corruptions that changed the religion. Such as Trinity, originial sin, atonement, son of God.
I am not attacking Christianity, I'm trying to show the errors in Christianity. Much like Ahmad Deedat did, converting hundreds, maybe thousands through debates which highlight the errors with Christianity. You don't understand what praying towards Makkah signifies, there is much symbolism behind it. The Jews prayed towards Jerusalem. In the book of Daniel, he speaks of praying towards Jerusalem three times a day. Are you saying Daniel prayed wrong? A prophet of God. Jesus (pbuh) simply conveyed a message to the world, it is God that did everything for this world. Jesus (pbuh) says in the Bible that he does nothing of his own, so he tell you right there that he didn't do anything. The Kaba, which is in Makkah, is supposed to be directly between God's throne in Heaven. When Muslims pray, they face God and bow to him. Jesus (pbuh)and many biblical prophets prayed with their faces on the floor in the bible. Prove to me that Jesus (pbuh) is God. You can't, there is no support for that. You're praying to a prophet of God, and he's not happy about it. All prayer should go directly to the creator and nobody else. This website is supposed to help people see the true message of God. I created this website because Christianity made God into something he is not, not to attack a religion. You can't support any of your beliefs with scripture, so you post things such as this about how you feel. Satan worshipers feel something too, are they right? Budhists are about as spiritual as you get, are they right?
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05-09-2006, 12:50 AM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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I guess you don't understand. If Jesus revealed the Law, then there is no corruption. There is no need for Islam. For the Law is truth.
Forget Christianity for a second.
So what about all the other religions in the world. They teach a different truth than what you believe. Your focus is on the bible and the corruption within. Why go after it when all other religions are false. You know my main focus is on teaching people about Christ and what he taught. What would I tell someone if I wanted to use the Qur'an? Or, what as a muslim are you supposed to teach? I teach that Jesus came to earth was killed and rose from the dead. He said believe in this and you will have eternal life. What does a muslim teach? Please don't paste an article.
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05-09-2006, 6:09 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
I guess you don't understand. If Jesus revealed the Law, then there is no corruption. There is no need for Islam. For the Law is truth.
Forget Christianity for a second.
So what about all the other religions in the world. They teach a different truth than what you believe. Your focus is on the bible and the corruption within. Why go after it when all other religions are false. You know my main focus is on teaching people about Christ and what he taught. What would I tell someone if I wanted to use the Qur'an? Or, what as a muslim are you supposed to teach? I teach that Jesus came to earth was killed and rose from the dead. He said believe in this and you will have eternal life. What does a muslim teach? Please don't paste an article.
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The reason my main focus is on the Bible is because the Bible covers both the Jewish book and the Chrisitian New Testament. Islam is what followed Christianity. I don't go after Budhists and such because they reject the true God altogether.
As for what would a Muslim teach, here it is:
Islam is really simple. Submit yourself to God, do as he commands. The Qur'an says God loves those who love him. He will forgive any and all your sins, because he also says that his mercy has no limit. Treat and help those around you that need help. A big part of Islam is that you have to be good to your fellow man. God will forgive your every sin if you sincerly repent, except those you commit to others, you must first have them forgive you, for it is them you wronged, before God forgives you. Islam values life greatly. The Qur'an also says if you kill one person, it is as if you killed all of humanity, if you save one life, it is as if you saved all of humanity. Basically, love God, love your Neighbor, follow Gods commands, repent for your sins and you'll be ok. It is very much like Jesus (pbuh) message. Jesus (pbuh)did no wrong with his message, that's not the problem. The problem is what came after Jesus (pbuh) left. Paul abolished many of the laws (not commandments, but other laws. The commandments are not the only law.) Also, at the time of Jesus (pbuh) nobody believed in a Trinity, originial sin, atonement, or actual son of God. Jesus (pbuh) message is the exact same as Muhammad (pbuh) message. They both taught to love God, love your neighbor, keep the law, and repent. Jesus (pbuh) message, or the gospels, to this day still teach this. Muhammad (pbuh) came to bring people back to the true God, which is the same God of the Jews and Jesus (pbuh). God which is not begotten or begets, the one and only God in the purest sense. I'm going to revise many of my articles to make them a bit more friendly, but you have to keep in mind that most of them are just verses that are listed from the Bible.
By using the Bible as my focus, I cover all denominations of Christianity, and Judaism. I don't think there are many other religions with scriptures, so I couldn't use them as a focus. I try to expose the Bible errors so that people can see that the Qur'an's claim that the Bible has been corrupted is true. That is a big step. Afterwords, it's important to show that the Qur'an teaches exactly what God and his propehts have always taught. The Qur'an also warns to stop making God into the trinity he is not, and I try to show that God is not and never was a trinity, and that the bible doesn't teach this.
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05-09-2006, 10:35 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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You said that the Qur'an says that God loves those who love him.
You said you believe in Jesus.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Perfection of the God that you claim to know is laid out here in the part of the bible that you claim to believe in. Part of that perfection is to love those who do not love you.
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05-10-2006, 6:41 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
You said that the Qur'an says that God loves those who love him.
You said you believe in Jesus.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Perfection of the God that you claim to know is laid out here in the part of the bible that you claim to believe in. Part of that perfection is to love those who do not love you.
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Yes, but you are forgetting one thing. That verse says that God loves those that love him, it doesn't say he hates those that don't love him. We only take into account what we are told and has been revealed to us, unlike Christians that have all sorts of assumptions thrown into their beliefs to justify it. For example, the contradictory accounts of how Judas Iscariot died. Did he hang himself as Matthew states, or did he fall as written in acts? Many Christians will argue, "Both, he hung himself, the rope broke, and he fell". Yet, the Bible doesn't say this. Also, what about all the other discrepancies? Such as, who bought the field, the Priest or Judas? Did Judas throw the money into the temple, or did he buy the field with it, and on and on. If it's not written there, then don't assume it, you can't play with Gods words.
Also, what about all the people God hates? In the Bible, and I believe I posted this before, God talks of all those he hates. I can repost those verses if you need to have your memory refreshed.
Tarek.
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05-10-2006, 8:56 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
You said that the Qur'an says that God loves those who love him.
You said you believe in Jesus.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Perfection of the God that you claim to know is laid out here in the part of the bible that you claim to believe in. Part of that perfection is to love those who do not love you.
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Yes, but you are forgetting one thing. That verse says that God loves those that love him, it doesn't say he hates those that don't love him. We only take into account what we are told and has been revealed to us, unlike Christians that have all sorts of assumptions thrown into their beliefs to justify it. For example, the contradictory accounts of how Judas Iscariot died. Did he hang himself as Matthew states, or did he fall as written in acts? Many Christians will argue, "Both, he hung himself, the rope broke, and he fell". Yet, the Bible doesn't say this. Also, what about all the other discrepancies? Such as, who bought the field, the Priest or Judas? Did Judas throw the money into the temple, or did he buy the field with it, and on and on. If it's not written there, then don't assume it, you can't play with Gods words.
Also, what about all the people God hates? In the Bible, and I believe I posted this before, God talks of all those he hates. I can repost those verses if you need to have your memory refreshed.
Tarek.
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I just re-read what I wrote to make sure. This verse does not say that God loves those who love him. I did not say it said that God hates those who do not love him. Please show me where the verse says that God only loves those that love him. This part of our discussion is about the Qur'an stating that God loves only those who love him. This verse is clear that the God you claim to believe in does not only love those who love him but also loves those who hate him. Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. How can the Qur'an say that God only loves those who love him and also believe in the bible? Jesus prayed for the very people that killed him. The whole law is summed up in love your neighbor as yourself. I can't stand some of my neighbors actions but when I think of them going to a place of torment forever after they die seperated from the love of God, part of me longs for them to be saved. How does following the law and praying five times a day and a trip to Mecca justify your love for God? This is a retorical question.
Yes, but you are forgetting one thing. That verse says that God loves those that love him, it doesn't say he hates those that don't love him.
Of course God loves those that love him, but this verse shows Gods love for the people that hate him as well. The Qur'an is wrong in this place.
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05-10-2006, 9:18 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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I will reply to your other post tomorrow, I am too tired right now. But just for future referece, you can either close the other window, or hit the stop button below the video to stop it. I don't know how to make the page load with it not playing. I would actually prefer to have the viewer have the option to play the video. I'm not sure how to. I was born in Jordan, no such thing goes on. For you to show that shows how you stereotype an entire race. I was never taught a thing about hating a Jew or any other religion. In school I learned math, science, Arabic, history, and Islam (From the prophet Abraham (pbuh) on.) We were later taught how to pray. Hate is not part of our religion, nor of our schooling. Research before you insult. Also, keep in mind that the video is talking of traditions before the trinity. If you're going to talk about verses in the Bible, please post where they can be found so that other readers will be able to see for themselves.
Thanks,
Tarek
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05-10-2006, 9:28 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
You said that the Qur'an says that God loves those who love him.
You said you believe in Jesus.
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Perfection of the God that you claim to know is laid out here in the part of the bible that you claim to believe in. Part of that perfection is to love those who do not love you.
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Yes, but you are forgetting one thing. That verse says that God loves those that love him, it doesn't say he hates those that don't love him. We only take into account what we are told and has been revealed to us, unlike Christians that have all sorts of assumptions thrown into their beliefs to justify it. For example, the contradictory accounts of how Judas Iscariot died. Did he hang himself as Matthew states, or did he fall as written in acts? Many Christians will argue, "Both, he hung himself, the rope broke, and he fell". Yet, the Bible doesn't say this. Also, what about all the other discrepancies? Such as, who bought the field, the Priest or Judas? Did Judas throw the money into the temple, or did he buy the field with it, and on and on. If it's not written there, then don't assume it, you can't play with Gods words.
Also, what about all the people God hates? In the Bible, and I believe I posted this before, God talks of all those he hates. I can repost those verses if you need to have your memory refreshed.
Tarek.
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I just re-read what I wrote to make sure. This verse does not say that God loves those who love him. I did not say it said that God hates those who do not love him. Please show me where the verse says that God only loves those that love him. This part of our discussion is about the Qur'an stating that God loves only those who love him. This verse is clear that the God you claim to believe in does not only love those who love him but also loves those who hate him. Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. How can the Qur'an say that God only loves those who love him and also believe in the bible? Jesus prayed for the very people that killed him. The whole law is summed up in love your neighbor as yourself. I can't stand some of my neighbors actions but when I think of them going to a place of torment forever after they die seperated from the love of God, part of me longs for them to be saved. How does following the law and praying five times a day and a trip to Mecca justify your love for God? This is a retorical question.
Yes, but you are forgetting one thing. That verse says that God loves those that love him, it doesn't say he hates those that don't love him.
Of course God loves those that love him, but this verse shows Gods love for the people that hate him as well. The Qur'an is wrong in this place.
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I'm lost, I'm not sure what your point is. The Qur'an is not wrong, I believe whatever point you may be trying to make is a confused one.
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05-11-2006, 9:54 PM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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The Bible tells us to love our enemies, it doesn't say anything about God loving those that hate him. Again, as one of my previous posts stated, you add to the word of God. If God orders us to love our enemies, than that is a command for us to follow, it does not apply to him. So should we assume that God also prays, fasts, sells all he has except for a walking stick since Jesus (pbuh) also ordered all these things? You can't take one but not the other.
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05-12-2006, 1:52 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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God did pray and fast and he did become lowley. Why would he tell us to love our enemies if he didn't love them?
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05-13-2006, 9:03 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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Muslim point of view: Prior to becoming a muslim, God hates you? Then when you become a muslim, God loves you? Is this correct.
The real God loves you even before you chose to follow him.
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