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Debates
Started by marklewis at 05-13-2006 9:05 PM. Topic has 169 replies.
  
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 05-13-2006, 9:05 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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 marklewis wrote: | |
Muslim point of view: Prior to becoming a muslim, God hates you? Then when you become a muslim, God loves you? Is this correct.
The real God loves you even before you chose to follow him.
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If the Muslim point of view is the truth, then the Qur'an is going against the part of the bible that the Qur'an claims to believe in. If this is the case, the god of the Qur'an is just that, god. Not God.
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05-13-2006, 10:33 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." This is the Holy Spirit that you say is Muhammad. The real God says Jesus will baptize us with this spirit. You can not be baptized by Muhammad.
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." Notice verse 21. This part is for us who believe in Jesus. Verse 16, Jesus is talking to the disciples. So he covers the disciples and the rest of us in this verse. This promise was for the disciples and us. This promise was the Holy Spirit. Also notice verse17. The Spirit of truth, Jesus says that they new him. Not only that, but that the Spirit would be in them.
The most awesome thing about this verse that I just discovered. Jesus says he will ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, and Jesus allready knows what the answer will be. He and the Father are so close.
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05-14-2006, 3:18 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
Muslim point of view: Prior to becoming a muslim, God hates you? Then when you become a muslim, God loves you? Is this correct.
The real God loves you even before you chose to follow him.
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Where would you get something like that from? Consider a couple examples from the Qur'an: (Remember, people of the book are Christians and Jews).
Chapter 3, verse 113: "But they are not all alike. There are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite God's revelations during the night, who bow down in worship. 114: Who believe in God and the Last Day, who order what is right and forbid what is wrong, who are quick to do good deeds. These people are among the righteous."
Chapter 60, verse 8: "and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.
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05-14-2006, 3:20 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
Muslim point of view: Prior to becoming a muslim, God hates you? Then when you become a muslim, God loves you? Is this correct.
The real God loves you even before you chose to follow him.
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If the Muslim point of view is the truth, then the Qur'an is going against the part of the bible that the Qur'an claims to believe in. If this is the case, the god of the Qur'an is just that, god. Not God.
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Once again, this point is ridecules as explained earlier.
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05-14-2006, 3:24 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
This is amazing, could you show me another?
This has to do with the Ezra mistake in the bible.
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Click here: Mathematical Errors in the Bible
I'm not trying to bash your religion, I'm just trying to show you that this is why God sent the Qur'an, cause man decided they wanted to play with Gods words. The Bible was sent for the Jews (pbuh) All nations had their own prophets, then Muhammad (pbuh) came as the seal, a mercy for the world. God swore to forever protect the Qur'an, because that is his words, the Qur'an is written in the first person. It is God speaking. He will protect it because there are no more messengers, and the Qur'an is all we now have. In essense, I too am a Christian, every Muslim must be. Christians are those that follow Christ, that is what it means to be Christian, and all Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet.
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05-14-2006, 3:28 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." This is the Holy Spirit that you say is Muhammad. The real God says Jesus will baptize us with this spirit. You can not be baptized by Muhammad.
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." Notice verse 21. This part is for us who believe in Jesus. Verse 16, Jesus is talking to the disciples. So he covers the disciples and the rest of us in this verse. This promise was for the disciples and us. This promise was the Holy Spirit. Also notice verse17. The Spirit of truth, Jesus says that they new him. Not only that, but that the Spirit would be in them.
The most awesome thing about this verse that I just discovered. Jesus says he will ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, and Jesus allready knows what the answer will be. He and the Father are so close.
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I understand this and I fully agree. I think the Father is close to each and every one of his prophets. This are his chosen messengers, the most righteous of the righteous. They accepted prophethood and from that point on gave their lives to the cause of God. It all became about God and spreading his word, their personal interest and worldy matters were of no concern anymore. If you love God, he will return that love so many times over that we couldn't even comprehend such a tremendous love. God will love you if you're not Muslim, but if you reject him and turn your back to him, he's most definately going to be angry. He gave you everything, all he asks back is that you accept him and follow him. Remember, to reject God does not mean to not be religious, it means to know who God is and yet choose to not care, to turn your back on him.
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05-14-2006, 9:19 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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I read the post were you explain the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost. How the Spirit was indeed around before Muhammad. I understand about the paraclyte who is Muhammad. Read this again...And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. You say this is Muhammad the paraclyte. That is impossible, Jesus explains right here that the paraclyte lives with them and soon will be in them. How do you say this is Muhammad?
Muhammad did not live with them.
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05-14-2006, 9:21 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
Muslim point of view: Prior to becoming a muslim, God hates you? Then when you become a muslim, God loves you? Is this correct.
The real God loves you even before you chose to follow him.
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Where would you get something like that from? Consider a couple examples from the Qur'an: (Remember, people of the book are Christians and Jews).
Chapter 3, verse 113: "But they are not all alike. There are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite God's revelations during the night, who bow down in worship. 114: Who believe in God and the Last Day, who order what is right and forbid what is wrong, who are quick to do good deeds. These people are among the righteous."
Chapter 60, verse 8: "and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.
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I thought you were implying that God hates all who do not love him.
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05-14-2006, 9:29 PM
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marklewis
Joined on 04-28-2006
Posts 81
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
This is amazing, could you show me another?
This has to do with the Ezra mistake in the bible.
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Click here: Mathematical Errors in the Bible
I'm not trying to bash your religion, I'm just trying to show you that this is why God sent the Qur'an, cause man decided they wanted to play with Gods words. The Bible was sent for the Jews (pbuh) All nations had their own prophets, then Muhammad (pbuh) came as the seal, a mercy for the world. God swore to forever protect the Qur'an, because that is his words, the Qur'an is written in the first person. It is God speaking. He will protect it because there are no more messengers, and the Qur'an is all we now have. In essense, I too am a Christian, every Muslim must be. Christians are those that follow Christ, that is what it means to be Christian, and all Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet. |
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You do not follow Jesus' whole message. How is the Qur'an going to save you? The Qur'ans veiw of heaven does not match up to Jesus'. Jesus is building heaven, not prayers and rituals.
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05-15-2006, 8:07 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
I read the post were you explain the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost. How the Spirit was indeed around before Muhammad. I understand about the paraclyte who is Muhammad. Read this again...And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. You say this is Muhammad the paraclyte. That is impossible, Jesus explains right here that the paraclyte lives with them and soon will be in them. How do you say this is Muhammad?
Muhammad did not live with them.
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15 ‘If you love me, you will keepme, keep');" onmouseout="return nd();" href="BLOCKED SCRIPTvoid(0);">* my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, Helper');" onmouseout="return nd();" href="BLOCKED SCRIPTvoid(0);">* to be with you for ever. 17This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in among');" onmouseout="return nd();" href="BLOCKED SCRIPTvoid(0);">* you.
Jesus (pbuh) is clearly speaking of 'another Advocate' to be sent. Someone who is clearly not here as you can see by this verses:
"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7).
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me." (John 16:12-14).
So, it is someone who was not present at the time. Muhammad came with the same message that God would always send through his Messengers, so those who believed truly, would know him because they would recognize the message that was already with them. It clearly couldn't mean the Holy Ghost, because it is clear the Holy Ghost was already present.
John 14:26 says that the Holy Ghost is the Comforter. This claim is contrary to the plain and unambiguous words of John 16:7, wherein Jesus (AS) says that his going away, i.e., the death of Jesus is inevitably necessary of the coming of the Comforter. The New Testament says that John was filled with the Holy Ghost even before he was born (Luke 1:14), and speaks of Jesus (AS) himself as receiving the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove (Matthew 3:16).
Thus, the Holy Ghost was wont to visit men before Jesus as well as in his own time. To what, then is the reference in the words, "If I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you." Surely not to the Holy Ghost; for it is a matter of common knowledge that the Holy Ghost was co-existing with Jesus, and it would be sacrilegious to think for a moment that Jesus was without the Holy Ghost. So, the Comforter was someone other than the Holy Ghost.
This also supports our assertion that there have been many interpolations in the existing Christine Bible. It is quite obvious that the Comforter cannot be the Holy Ghost, as Jesus use the pronoun "he" instead of "it" in connection with the Comforter.
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05-15-2006, 8:09 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
This is amazing, could you show me another?
This has to do with the Ezra mistake in the bible.
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Click here: Mathematical Errors in the Bible
I'm not trying to bash your religion, I'm just trying to show you that this is why God sent the Qur'an, cause man decided they wanted to play with Gods words. The Bible was sent for the Jews (pbuh) All nations had their own prophets, then Muhammad (pbuh) came as the seal, a mercy for the world. God swore to forever protect the Qur'an, because that is his words, the Qur'an is written in the first person. It is God speaking. He will protect it because there are no more messengers, and the Qur'an is all we now have. In essense, I too am a Christian, every Muslim must be. Christians are those that follow Christ, that is what it means to be Christian, and all Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet.
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You do not follow Jesus' whole message. How is the Qur'an going to save you? The Qur'ans veiw of heaven does not match up to Jesus'. Jesus is building heaven, not prayers and rituals. |
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I don't understand what you mean. Could you list some verses from the Bible that show this so that I may analyze them. If possible, I am only interested in the Gospels or Old Testament, but you can also post some from the other parts of the NT, just site the chapters and verses.
Thanks
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05-15-2006, 8:09 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | | Guide To Salvation wrote: | | marklewis wrote: | |
This is amazing, could you show me another?
This has to do with the Ezra mistake in the bible.
|
|
Click here: Mathematical Errors in the Bible
I'm not trying to bash your religion, I'm just trying to show you that this is why God sent the Qur'an, cause man decided they wanted to play with Gods words. The Bible was sent for the Jews (pbuh) All nations had their own prophets, then Muhammad (pbuh) came as the seal, a mercy for the world. God swore to forever protect the Qur'an, because that is his words, the Qur'an is written in the first person. It is God speaking. He will protect it because there are no more messengers, and the Qur'an is all we now have. In essense, I too am a Christian, every Muslim must be. Christians are those that follow Christ, that is what it means to be Christian, and all Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet.
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You do not follow Jesus' whole message. How is the Qur'an going to save you? The Qur'ans veiw of heaven does not match up to Jesus'. Jesus is building heaven, not prayers and rituals. |
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I don't understand what you mean. Could you list some verses from the Bible that show this so that I may analyze them. If possible, I am only interested in the Gospels or Old Testament, but you can also post some from the other parts of the NT, just site the chapters and verses.
Thanks
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Report
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05-15-2006, 8:20 AM
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Guide To Salvation
Joined on 04-07-2006
Posts 110
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Re: Debate challenge Rejected
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| marklewis wrote: | |
What is your opinion on Jesus' true mission and what supports this view?
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God has always had one message, God does not change (Mal 3:6) and his message wouldn't either. Jesus (pbuh) came with that same message and he came to the Jews to lead them to the righteous path. Messenger after Messenger would always be sent to reaffirm the previous message, that is why the Jewshad so many messengers. Muslims do not believe that Jesus (pbuh) came to change the message to trinity and teach a doctrine never before known, which are those of original sin, and atonement. Also, he never came to teach he was the Son of God. Notice, he mostly referred to himself as Son of Man. Son of man in Hebrew is bin Adam. In Arabic, which I speak, it is beni Adam. In both Hebrew and Arabic, that is the word for human. If I wanted to say I am human in arabic, I would say, "Ana Beni Adam." Same with Hebrew. That is why Jesus always called himself the Son of Man, so everyone knew he was human. There were many Sons of Gods in the Bible:
Luke 3:38
1 Chron 28:6
Luke 3:22
Exodus 4:22
Jeremiah 31:9
1 John 3:9-10
Psalms 2:7
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